Legislature(2011 - 2012)HOUSE FINANCE 519
02/28/2012 04:00 PM House FINANCE
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HJR16 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| += | HJR 16 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
HOUSE FINANCE COMMITTEE
February 28, 2012
4:05 p.m.
4:05:55 PM
CALL TO ORDER
Co-Chair Stoltze called the House Finance Committee meeting
to order at 4:05 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Bill Stoltze, Co-Chair
Representative Bill Thomas Jr., Co-Chair
Representative Anna Fairclough, Vice-Chair
Representative Mia Costello
Representative Mike Doogan
Representative Bryce Edgmon
Representative Les Gara
Representative David Guttenberg
Representative Reggie Joule
Representative Mark Neuman
Representative Tammie Wilson
MEMBERS ABSENT
None
ALSO PRESENT
Neil Denny, Kenai Peninsula School District, Kenai; John
Alcantra, National Education Association-Alaska (NEA-
Alaska), Mat-Su; Mari Torgerson, Fairbanks Northstar
Borough School District, Fairbanks; Bishop Edward Burns,
Diocese of Juneau and Southeast Alaska, Juneau; Valerie
Kneffel, Teacher, Bethel; Reverend Pat Travers, Priest,
Catholic Diocese of Juneau; Bruce Johnson, Executive
Director, Alaska Council of School Administrators, Juneau;
Mukhya Khalsa, Self, Juneau; Representative Wes Keller,
Sponsor; Representative Alan Austerman.
PRESENT VIA TELECONFERENCE
Tom Fink, Self, Anchorage; Debbie Joslin, Self, Delta
Junction; Bob Griffin, Self, Eagle River; Amy Robertson,
Self, Anchorage; Allison Smith, Self, Anchorage; Katherine
Hicks, Self, Anchorage; David Boyle, Self, Anchorage;
Bethany Marcum, Self, Anchorage; Duane Moran, President,
Anchorage Council of Education Alaska Public Employees
Association, Anchorage; Allen Hippler, Self, Anchorage; Lon
Garrison, President, Association of Alaska School Boards,
Sitka; LeDawn Druce, President, Kenai Public Education
Association, Soldotna; Erick Cordero, Self, Mat-Su; Sarah
Welton, Palmer Church of the Covenant, Professor Mat-Su
College, Mat-Su; James Johnson, Self, Soldotna; William
Stannell, Self, Anchorage; Joshua Decker, Self, Anchorage;
Pete Hoepfner, President, Cordova Schools Board Member;
Geneva Columbus, Self, Anchorage; Jill Showman, MSEA,
Wasilla; Nate Davis, Self, Anchorage; Anand Dubey, Self,
Anchorage; Rose Nelson, Self, Anchorage; Karen McGahan,
Self, Nikiski; Dr. Jess Ellis, Self, Anchorage; Eulalia
Bunn, Self, Anchorage; Tony Jackson, Self, Nikiski; Marilyn
Davidson, Assistant Superintendent, Kodiak School District;
Matthew Larkin, Self, Anchorage; Glen Biegel, Self,
Anchorage; Richard Koller, Self, Anchorage; Tammy Smith,
President, Fairbanks Education Association; Matt Johnson,
Self, Chugiak.
SUMMARY
HJR 16 CONST. AM: EDUCATION FUNDING
HJR 16 was HEARD and HELD in committee for
further consideration.
HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 16
Proposing amendments to the Constitution of the State
of Alaska relating to state aid for education.
4:07:11 PM
Co-Chair Stoltze remarked that he would invite the
testifiers from the previous meeting to speak first.
4:08:43 PM
TOM FINK, SELF, ANCHORAGE (via teleconference), testified
in support of HJR 16. He stressed that the amendment was
critical to broadening education opportunities across the
state. He stressed that thirteen states had passed similar
amendments in the prior year. He felt that competitive
systems were better than monopolies. He stressed that
children had a free education if they attended public
schools. He remarked that parents should be allowed to
choose the right school for their children, and the money
should be made available. He pointed out that education
budgets had not been reduced in the states that had passed
similar legislation.
4:12:39 PM
Representative Doogan queried the source of the poll that
stated that 64 percent of parents preferred to send their
children to private school.
Co-Chair Stoltze stated that the question would be
addressed later.
4:14:06 PM
DEBBIE JOSLIN, SELF, DELTA JUNCTION (via teleconference),
testified in support of HJR 16. She explained that her
children were home schooled and she received no funding
from the state. She explained that she used Christian
curriculum to teach her children. She remarked that her son
was excelling in college, and her daughter had received a
scholarship. She stressed that her children were given an
education with a Christian curriculum and believed they
were socially adjusted and received good grades.
4:17:42 PM
NEIL DENNY, KENAI PENINSULA SCHOOL DISTRICT, KENAI,
testified against HJR 16. He explained that he worked with
the Connections Program to packet programs for home
schooling. He felt that the home schools were not required
to meet the same standards as the public schools. He
explained that the Connections Program had a 48 percent
graduation rate. He felt that there was no accountability
in the home school programs.
4:22:08 PM
Representative Wilson stressed that over half of the public
schools in Alaska did not meet the AYP [Annual Yearly
Progress] standards. Mr. Denny responded that there were
975 students enrolled in the Connections and home school
programs. The students rotated from the private system to
public system and were a severe drain on AYP because they
were well below grade level. He noted that for the first
year the Kenai Peninsula School District had not met AYP.
He opined that any schools would meet AYP in 2014.
Representative Wilson pointed out that it was not a
competition between home schools and public schools. The
bill was about offering voters the choice to decide whether
it was time for an amendment to the Alaska Constitution.
She acknowledged a slight sensitivity on the issue as she
had home schooled her children.
Representative Doogan wondered what AYP meant.
Representative Wilson replied that AYP stood for Annual
Yearly Progress.
4:25:33 PM
JOHN ALCANTRA, NATIONAL EDUCATION ASSOCIATION-ALASKA (NEA-
ALASKA), MAT-SU, testified against HJR 16. He felt that his
children had many options for education in the Matanuska
Susitna Valley. He stressed that NEA-Alaska "fiercely"
opposed HJR 16.
4:29:20 PM
MARI TORGERSON, FAIRBANKS NORTHSTAR BOROUGH SCHOOL
DISTRICT, FAIRBANKS, spoke in opposition to HJR 16. She
explained that she had four children and taught elementary
school for many years. She relayed that she took great
pride in Alaskan children. She stressed that public schools
provided highly qualified teachers, which may not be the
case in the schools that accept vouchers. She communicated
that most private schools did not require their teachers to
be licensed. She commented that there was a small sector of
school (typically special education sections of schools)
that was not meeting AYP requirements. She stressed that
the home schooled students should be tested in the same way
that public school students were. She felt that the
resolution might promote segregation. She feared that
vouchers would "lower the bar."
4:33:39 PM
BISHOP EDWARD BURNS, DIOCESE OF JUNEAU AND SOUTHEAST
ALASKA, JUNEAU, vocalized support for HJR 16. He stressed
that he was not testifying to judge any group. He felt that
parents should be given a choice in how their children were
educated. He stressed that there was a desire to provide
what the parents felt was best for their own children. He
believed that education options were only provided to those
who could afford it financially.
4:37:56 PM
Representative Doogan stated that he was a Roman Catholic
and that his parents had paid for his religious education.
He stressed that parents should be financially responsible
if they wanted their children to receive a religious
education; he explained that was the difference between the
parochial schools and the public education system.
Bishop Burns agreed that religious education required
sacrifice. He stressed that some parents were not able to
provide a religious education because they could not afford
it.
Representative Doogan stressed that Bishop Burns'
perspective was unconvincing.
Co-Chair Stoltze remarked that others would be commenting
on that same topic. Bishop Burns replied that parents
should be allowed the opportunity to choose their
children's education.
4:42:28 PM
BOB GRIFFIN, SELF, EAGLE RIVER (via teleconference),
testified in favor of HJR 16. He stressed that many school
choices were given to upper class parents. He felt that
competition was essential in every system. He explained
that 38 states had adopted similar resolutions for school
choice.
4:47:51 PM
AMY ROBERTSON, SELF, ANCHORAGE (via teleconference),
testified in support of HJR 16. She stated that she had
children who were attending private schools and charter
schools. She stated that her daughter was at the bottom of
the waiting list at a charter school and was unable to
attend the school. She mentioned that children with special
needs would not be left behind. She felt that the religious
schools in the state would help special needs students if
the need existed. She explained that she could afford to
send her children to private schools, but some parents
could not. She shared that her daughter had attended a
public school and she felt that the school had focused
money in the wrong areas.
4:51:54 PM
ALLISON SMITH, SELF, ANCHORAGE (via teleconference), spoke
in support of HJR 16. She stressed that parental choice was
an essential step in solving Alaska's education problem.
She felt that public schools did not provide enough options
for parents. She felt that parents should be allowed access
to the classrooms. She believed there were many statistics
pointing to the failures of public schools. She stressed
that competition was essential to boosting the success of
public schools.
4:56:07 PM
KATHERINE HICKS, SELF, ANCHORAGE (via teleconference),
voiced support for the legislation. She believed that
school choice was a fundamental civil right. She opined
that many ABC schools were better disciplined and
organized.
4:58:23 PM
DAVID BOYLE, SELF, ANCHORAGE (via teleconference),
supported the bill. He told a personal story and believed
the Alaskan school system was broken. He opined that public
schools had a monopoly that was not responding to the
customer demand. He noted that poorer students suffered
because their families could not afford to send them to
private schools. He stressed that with school choice better
schools will be formed.
5:01:55 PM
BETHANY MARCUM, SELF, ANCHORAGE (via teleconference),
voiced her support for the bill. She hoped the question of
school choice will be on the ballot for the people to vote
on it. She expressed that the role of legislature is not to
do what they think best, but what the people want. She did
not want to be denied the right to do what the people want.
5:03:23 PM
DUANE MORAN, PRESIDENT, ANCHORAGE COUNCIL OF EDUCATION
ALASKA PUBLIC EMPLOYEES ASSOCIATION, ANCHORAGE (via
teleconference), testified against supporting the bill. He
indicated the mixed results in other state's decisions to
fund private education. He emphasized that private schools
choose the students they want, not the parents. He said
that logistics and transportation is a challenge in
Anchorage with the accompanying cost. He acknowledged that
there were choices for students in Anchorage. He questioned
the transparency and accountability for public funds.
5:05:49 PM
ALLEN HIPPLER, SELF, ANCHORAGE (via teleconference),
supported the bill. He believed that competition was needed
with schools. He believed that the people of Alaska should
determine if they would be better served by a modification
to the Alaska Constitution in allowing public funding to
private schools.
5:06:48 PM
VALERIE KNEFFEL, TEACHER, BETHEL, testified against the
bill. She voiced her concern on how the voucher system
would work in rural villages. She mentioned that some
classes only had five students and wondered how the voucher
system would be offered there. She was also concerned on
how the voucher system would serve the all the students.
She added that the voucher system could leave some students
behind. She believed there can be situations in the home
that may not make it possible for the parent to be the best
teacher to her children. She wondered how voucher schools
will be held accountable.
5:11:16 PM
REVEREND PAT TRAVERS, PRIEST, CATHOLIC DIOCESE OF JUNEAU,
testified in support of the bill. He believed that the
voucher system could keep those that might otherwise fall
through the cracks in public education. He signified that
he did not want the public schools to wither. Many parents
who might want to send their children to catholic schools
may not be able to afford it, but could if there was
voucher money available.
5:15:25 PM
LON GARRISON, PRESIDENT, ASSOCIATION OF ALASKA SCHOOL
BOARDS, SITKA (via teleconference), testified against the
bill for himself and read a statement from Carl Rose,
Alaska Association of Alaska School Boards. He did not
approve of public funds going to private education. He
noted that the voucher system drains scare resources from
public classrooms. He noted that taxes could rise to cover
the voucher system in funding both private and public
schools. A public education is free. He suggested that
providing all Alaskans with a voucher for fuel or
electrical use would be using public wealth to help far
more people.
5:19:07 PM
LEDAWN DRUCE, PRESIDENT, KENAI PUBLIC EDUCATION
ASSOCIATION, SOLDOTNA (via teleconference), testified
against the bill. She stressed that public schools in
Alaska are not failing. She believed that comparison from
test scores failures does not work. The Kenai has a lot of
choices that are free and within the public system. She
disagreed with the idea that the public schools need more
competition. She believed that the argument of running
schools like a business model does not work.
5:23:12 PM
ERICK CORDERO, SELF, MAT-SU (via teleconference), voiced
his support for the bill. He believed in giving parents a
choice on how their children are educated. He disclosed
personal research on voucher education choice in countries
like Chile, Sweden and New Zealand. He believed there could
be an Alaskan way that works for the people. He was
supportive of public education as well as private choices.
5:25:24 PM
SARAH WELTON, PALMER CHURCH OF THE COVENANT, PROFESSOR MAT-
SU COLLEGE, MAT-SU (via teleconference), testified against
the bill. She did not believe in mixing religion with
public funds. She stressed this was another way to fund
religion. She pointed out sources that attest to the
quality of public schools. The use of public money for
private schools goes against her religion on the separation
of church and state. The funds will be used to supplant the
money private organizations already have. She attested that
resinous schools will be promoting their faith with public
funds. She noted that taking away dollars from public
schools increases class size as resources are drained.
5:29:51 PM
JAMES JOHNSON, SELF, SOLDOTNA (via teleconference),
testified in support of the bill. He did not understand all
the ramifications of the amendment. He believed that public
funds should go wherever the parent wants them to go. He
did not believe the public should have to pay twice to
educate their children. He spoke of using allotment money
in home schooling his own children, but also used their own
funds. He indicated that competition is what makes America
great.
5:34:29 PM
WILLIAM STANNELL, SELF, ANCHORAGE (via teleconference),
testified against the bill. He noted that there are already
choices available for students in Alaska. He does not
expect the government to give financial handouts to parents
who want their children to go to private schools. He
believed public schools are doing well. He pointed out that
parents seem to be expecting handouts from the government.
He stressed that he did not want the government involved in
his children's religious education. There are poorly run
private and religious schools asking for money under the
banner of school choice because they cannot manage their
own resources.
5:37:58 PM
JOSHUA DECKER, SELF, ANCHORAGE (via teleconference),
testified against the bill. He did not believe that public
money should go to religious schools. He communicated his
belief that there could be open discrimination in private
schools. The framers of the Alaska Constitution assured the
people that there would be a strong public education
system, not a private education.
Representative Wilson asked where his children were
educated. Mr. Decker responded that he did not have
children.
5:43:49 PM
BRUCE JOHNSON, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, ALASKA COUNCIL OF SCHOOL
ADMINISTRATORS, JUNEAU, testified against the bill. He
supported public funded education for all the children of
Alaska. The ACSA organization fosters choice within the
public school setting where access and accountability is
available to any family. He respected family's choices to
choose a private education for their children, however once
a program accepts public funds all schools must be held to
fair and non-discriminatory admission policies and
accountability measures. He noted that there must be
equitable rules for all private schools if they accept
public funds.
5:47:18 PM
MUKHYA KHALSA, SELF, JUNEAU, testified against the bill.
She made the decision to send her children to a private
school, but did not expect the government to pay it. She
did not believe public funds should go to pay for her
children's religious education. She was concerned that
children who might have special needs could be left behind
if money leaves the public school sector. She was also
concerned that some private school curriculums would not
meet the needs of children. She cited the lack of good
science education, especially in some fundamentalist
Christian religious schools.
5:50:26 PM
PETE HOEPFNER, PRESIDENT, CORDOVA SCHOOLS BOARD MEMBER (via
teleconference), spoke in opposition of the bill. He
believed rewording the constitution will not be fair. There
can be discrimination in admissions and non-accountability
in their standards. He noted that the legislature is
demanding accountability in public school who will not
receive any funding if they don't comply. He did not see
these accountability requirements in private schools. He
also noted that public schools must have 10 to be a school,
but there is no number limit for private schools.
5:53:01 PM
Representative Doogan asked Mayor Tom Fink of Anchorage
about the source that indicated that 62 percent of the
population approved of using public money for private
schools. Mayor Fink responded that Bron Research
interviewed 1006 people in September 2011. He mentioned a
website AKChoice.org has the complete information. He said
that the percentage who approved was 64 percent.
5:55:13 PM
GENEVA COLUMBUS, SELF, ANCHORAGE (via teleconference),
testified in support of the bill. She believed there should
be a general vote by the population of Alaska on the bill.
She believed that competition would provide a jolt to the
education system.
5:57:20 PM
RECESSED
6:30:34 PM
RECONVENED
6:30:34 PM
JILL SHOWMAN, MSEA, WASILLA (via teleconference), spoke in
opposition of the bill. She believed the language should
reflect all of Alaska
6:31:45 PM
AT EASE
6:33:15 PM
RECONVENED
6:33:15 PM
NATE DAVIS, SELF, ANCHORAGE (via teleconference), testified
in support of the legislation. He stated that
accountability was an important issue with respect to
private schools and said that the state could address that
aspect. He offered that the state was already funding and
promoting religious experiences for children through school
teachers' opinions and views, interpretation of literary
documents, interpretation of history, and private
counseling. He urged the importance of giving parents a
choice of where and how to educated their children and
stated that the only people who currently could choose were
people with money. He wondered why the state funded
religious postsecondary education, but was hesitant to do
so below grade 12; under the bill, the state would be
funding all religions and not a particular one. He
indicated that there was a fear that public schools would
close as a result of the legislation, but stated that the
competitive market would help the school system. He
concluded that he believed in funding with no strings
attached, other than reasonable accountability standards.
6:38:33 PM
ANAND DUBEY, SELF, ANCHORAGE (via teleconference), spoke in
support of the initiative and stated that he had a three
and a half year old daughter, who was trilingual, attending
a Montessori school. He asserted that choice and
competition were what had made America great and if the
bill was not passed it would only reinforce a bureaucracy
with no competition.
6:40:08 PM
ROSE NELSON, SELF, ANCHORAGE (via teleconference),
expressed support for the bill and stated that she had
three children attending charter schools in Anchorage. She
remarked that it had taken three years on a waiting list to
get her son into the charter school that he was currently
attending. She declared that charter schools provided a
better education; children who attended them learned better
and were more respectful. She related a story about how the
charter school system was started in Louisiana and how it
improved the education in that state. She stated that more
of the funding for education needed to go directly to the
children and that less should go to the unions.
6:44:38 PM
KAREN MCGAHAN, SELF, NIKISKI (via teleconference), spoke in
favor of the resolution and stated that she had put four
children through private schools, while paying taxes to the
public school system. She noted that throwing more money
into the education system did not mean a better education
and concluded that the legislation would create
competition, which would result in better schools.
6:46:15 PM
Co-Chair Stoltze stated that committee would stand at ease
for the next 15 minutes in order to see if more testifiers
signed at various LIO's across the state. He observed that
the committee had publicly announced that it would take new
testimony until 7 p.m. and declared that he would like to
honor that.
6:46:40 PM
AT EASE
6:55:43 PM
RECONVENED
DR. JESS ELLIS, SELF, ANCHORAGE (via teleconference), spoke
in support of the legislation and related the importance of
a good education. He thought that bill should pass because
sometimes the best education available was offered by
church related institutions; it was unfair to say that a
student could not get an education at a religious
institution because it would be a benefit to the church. He
stated that passing the legislation was an important step
toward getting people the education they wanted and
stressed the importance of the right of parents to choose
the best education for their children. He added that that
the resolution would greatly benefit the minority
community.
7:01:03 PM
EULALIA BUNN, SELF, ANCHORAGE (via teleconference),
expressed her support of the resolution and stated that she
had a daughter in the charter school system. She was
dissatisfied with the options available in the public
system and was shocked at how difficult and lengthy the
process was to get her child into an alternative school. In
conclusion, she shared that there were a lot of parents in
the state that felt the same way.
7:03:17 PM
TONY JACKSON, SELF, NIKISKI (via teleconference), testified
in support of the legislation and related that he had a
unique perspective because he had been educated in the
public school system, paid for his own private
postsecondary education, and had taught in both the public
and private schools systems; furthermore, his wife
homeschooled their own children. He strongly believed that
education was the parent's responsibility and that the
legislation would give parents more control in finding an
education that best suited their own needs.
7:05:27 PM
MARILYN DAVIDSON, ASSISTANT SUPERINTENDENT, KODIAK SCHOOL
DISTRICT (via teleconference), spoke in opposition to the
bill and declared that her education experience also
encompassed both private and public schools. She stated
that public schools had been built around equal
opportunity, had high standards, and were held to the idea
of equity. Public schools were for everyone and could not
serve specific populations to the exclusion of others. She
stated that a teacher could lose their license if they
taught a personal point of view or preferred one ideology
over another. She spoke about the high accountability
applied to the public schools system and stated that
accountability was much lower in private schools. She urged
that if the initiative were passed, the same requirements
on public schools would have to be placed on private
schools and concluded that the bill would siphon money away
from an already struggling public school system.
7:09:17 PM
MATTHEW LARKIN, SELF, ANCHORAGE (via teleconference), spoke
in favor of the bill and stated that he was parent of two
who wanted the best education for his children. He spoke
about Anchorage's poor education track record and expressed
his frustration at the rigorous process involved with
getting children into alternative schools. He believed that
Alaskans would overwhelmingly support the initiative if it
was brought before the voters.
7:10:52 PM
GLEN BIEGEL, SELF, ANCHORAGE (via teleconference), spoke in
favor of the legislation and responded to comments made by
Marilyn Davidson. He refuted the argument that the bill
would destroy public schools and would leave people with
disabilities or special needs without options. He furthered
that there was no scenario where public schools would go
away. He also refuted the idea that every school,
regardless its type, should have the "$75,000 or so" that
it took to care for a special needs student; if that was
true, there was no solution because not every school could
be that highly specialized. He clarified that Marilyn
Davidson's suggestion that every school should mimic the
public school was a "design for failure." He related that
people with money were able to put their children into
schools of choice, but that poor children were the ones who
were left out and forgotten. He stated having access to
choice in education had proven effective in virtually every
system it was tried in and urged the need for access to
schools that reflected your own values. He concluded by
saying that no amount of competition would eliminate the
need for public schools.
7:14:54 PM
Representative Gara stated that he appreciated Mr. Biegel's
testimony, but noted that Ms. Davidson did not have the
chance to respond to his comments; furthermore, he did not
believe that Ms. Davidson's views were fully or accurately
reflected by the testimony of Mr. Biegel.
Mr. Biegel interjected that Ms. Davidson's primary point
did not allow people to innovate. He also did not agree
with her view of the greater good. He stated that he would
like to have a debate to further understand why Ms.
Davidson had objections to having different services
provided in different schools.
Representative Gara clarified that he certainly wanted to
hear public testimony, but that his point was that "going
after" the comments of previous testifiers was not fair
practice.
Co-Chair Stoltze acknowledged that there had been prior
discussion between testifiers.
7:17:16 PM
RICHARD KOLLER, SELF, ANCHORAGE (via teleconference), spoke
in favor of the bill and stated he would like to associate
his remarks with the testimony of Mr. Biegel. He stated
that he did not agree with the argument against school
choice and that increased competition would not harm
schools. He concluded that he believed every Alaskan should
have the right to choose where they would attend school,
rather than being assigned to an institution based on their
zip code.
7:19:26 PM
TAMMY SMITH, PRESIDENT, FAIRBANKS EDUCATION ASSOCIATION
(via teleconference), expressed the Association's
opposition to the bill and stated that public money should
go to public education. She related that people had many
opportunities to receive a good education and that private
schools were exclusionary, while public schools were
designed for everyone. She furthered that parents should
have a choice, but that public allocations should go
directly to public education. She urged that it would hurt
the public school system to take money away from it;
furthermore, as a tax payer, she wanted public money to go
towards public facilities. In conclusion, she related that
the bill would leave out students from many different kinds
of backgrounds.
7:24:15 PM
MATT JOHNSON, SELF, CHUGIAK (via teleconference), spoke in
strong support of the legislation and stated that
competition was good for everyone.
HJR 16 was HEARD and HELD in committee for further
consideration.
7:26:04 PM
Co-Chair Stoltze thanked the testifiers, committee members,
and Representative Keller for their time and discussed the
agenda for the following meeting.
ADJOURNMENT
7:26:49 PM
The meeting was adjourned at 7:26 PM.
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